Curse

Shouzen · Dec 20, 2008, 09:19 AM // 09:19

How do mesmers hold themselves in HM these days? I've been out it for quite some time, so I was hoping I could get some input.

And also, how do you guys like this build:

Empathy
Guilt
Mistrust
Shame
Frustration
Power Spike
Ressurection Chant
Echo (E)

12+3+1 Domination
10+1 Illusion
8+1 FC

This build has not, I repeat, not been created by me. I just thought it would work quite nice. Credits for this build go to Alleji

Icy The Mage · Dec 20, 2008, 10:32 AM // 10:32

[Cry of Pain] Cry of Pain is a must for a Mesmer bar, if you have Nightfall that is.

[Frustration] Frustration is a pretty useless skill in PvE, single target shutdown without damage is pretty pathetic considering how fast monsters die. You'd want to take more damage or damage prevention in your bar. I would replace it with something like

[Cry of Frustration] It does a bit of damage, but the best part is that it interrupts everything, including people doing attacks, casting spells, etc. in a quite a large area.

[Ether Nightmare] AoE Degeneration is good, especially if you have a high rank in the Kurzick or Luxon title tracks. Degeneration at even the lowest levels does 12 dps, per target. Coupled with the fact that you're probably going to hit at least 3 other targets with it (since it's got a pretty big range), you'll be doing about 48 dps, without even doing anything!

Running a superior rune (+3 domination magic) is generally a bad idea if you're a Mesmer. This would mean that monsters will tend to target you (low health) and break aggro from your front line, possibly harassing your monks, but mainly attacking you (squishy target). A minor rune is the way to go

The rest of your build looks fine, spec 2 into healing prayers if you haven't already, as that little extra bit of energy helps!

Also, I think you meant Inspiration, not illusion.

upier · Dec 20, 2008, 11:06 AM // 11:06

Let's look at some things:
1. Runes should help you to reach a breakpoint.
None of the skills you are using has a breakpoint - they just get better the more you invest into the selected line. And that never warrants a sup rune.
There is just no point in wasting that much HP for a few additional points of damage.

2. Active interrupts are meh in HM.
If you want to use one though - the best one is CoF. Not only does it interrupt skills - it also has an AoE effect which is superb.
That's also the reason why Frustration isn't worth it.

3. Reusable rez.
Res Chant, due to it's range, suggest it will be used mid-battle. 6 sec casting time - even with FC - is a waste.
If you will be using a rez mid-battle, then use something like Death Pact Signet. You want people to be up and running fast, because that not only means the dead guy can go back to doing his job, that also means that the guy DOING the rezzing can do the same!
If the rez will NOT be used mid-battle - then you might as well bring Rebirth. (This pretty much only applies for places where you get kicked out of the instance if your whole team dies. Otherwise just die instead of bringing Rebirth.)

4. Long recharges are a bitch.
Even with Echo there isn't much you can do about it. If you aren't using an elite that actually does something (for instance VoR) - your elite should serve reducing recharge times. Mantra Of Recovery or Assassin's Promise would be sweet.
Pretty much the only mesmer PvE build that I can think of that breaks this rule would be a Clumsy/Wandering spammer.

5. PvE skills are good.

To summarize:
- 14 domination (unless you are running E-Burn/Surge which have a breakpoint at 15)
- if you are bringing a reusable rez - then look for a better option
- in that case - I'd look into dumping all your points into FC and bringing MoR
- if you'll dump the rez - look into AP

Still, if you have fun with your build - enjoy it!
That's what PvE is about.

kostolomac · Dec 20, 2008, 12:26 PM // 12:26

@IcyFiftyFive:CoP is not a must , I managed EotN and Proph without it. It's not that good , unless you are using AP.

Yes , frustration is bad.

It's good on a hero , in HM as upier pointed out , humans using interrupts isn't very good (unless the target is dazed , and then auto attacking is better).

Degen in any form in pve is bad.

Quote:

How do mesmers hold themselves in HM these days? I've been out it for quite some time, so I was hoping I could get some input.

Like any other caster , behind a physical or a wall of minions.
As for builds , mesmers mostly run Domination builds with VoR , Illusion builds often have Wandering eye and Clumsiness. Necromancer curses line is also good , especially because of [Enfeebling Blood].
Imo the most efficient builds for mesmers involve Assassin's promise because of the good energy management and because most sweet mesmer skills have a long recharge and AP solves that problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Still, if you have fun with your build - enjoy it!
That's what PvE is about.

I agree.

TrippieHippie89 · Dec 20, 2008, 02:07 PM // 14:07

i run barrage on my mesmer

imgudrite?

upier · Dec 20, 2008, 02:50 PM // 14:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrippieHippie89

i run barrage on my mesmer

imgudrite?

You are running a "physical" in a game where physicals win.
So ... yeah.

Sindo · Dec 20, 2008, 03:08 PM // 15:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrippieHippie89

i run barrage on my mesmer

imgudrite?

lolz

Running [signet of illusions] at 15/16 Illusion Magic with [ebon vanguard assassin support], [ebon vanguard sniper support], or any other PvE Only skills blows things up.

Tyla · Dec 20, 2008, 03:13 PM // 15:13

Running SoI to boost your PvE skills is weak, as they are only ranked up once. Running anything that modifies recharge times to boost your skills is brave.

Abedeus · Dec 20, 2008, 03:35 PM // 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Running SoI to boost your PvE skills is weak, as they are only ranked up once. Running anything that modifies recharge times to boost your skills is brave.

Title who.. I mean hunters :[

Echo is pretty bad, in PvE and PvP. Only Ranger Trapers and CoP can use it.

SoI is good for normal people that don't waste time farming titles.

Tyla · Dec 20, 2008, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Remember that a couple of updates ago the skills were buffed at lower title ranks. I don't farm titles at all, but recharge modifiers help me a lot more than a gimmicky attribution boost will.

zelgadissan · Dec 20, 2008, 05:06 PM // 17:06

The build I've been running in HM since August:
[Visions of Regret][Cry of Frustration][Cry of Pain][Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support][Shatter Hex][Drain Enchantment][Power Drain][Flesh of my Flesh]

I also used to run an illusion heavy build, but when your team packs Enfeebling Blood there's no need to worry about physicals.

MegaVolti · Dec 20, 2008, 07:11 PM // 19:11

[[Frustration] is an awesome skill, but only when combined with sure interrupts such as [[Wandering Eye] or [[Clumsiness]. It also meets the condition for [[Cry of Pain]. So here is a basic build that works great for anything HM:

[Wandering Eye][Clumsiness][Lyssa's Aura][Frustration][Cry of Pain][utility][utility][rezz]

Good interrupts (especially against physicals), good damage, endless mana. In areas with heavy enchantment removal, swap [[Lyssa's Aura] for some other energy management (like [[Energy Drain] or something).

Sierraa · Dec 21, 2008, 06:19 AM // 06:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by kostolomac

@IcyFiftyFive:CoP is not a must , I managed EotN and Proph without it. It's not that good , unless you are using AP.

I finished all 3 campaigns + eotn with some horrible build that had no elite, and I didn't have max armor. Some builds are more efficient than others.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kostolomac

Degen in any form in pve is bad.

lol You're kidding right?

-ahem-

[Comfort Animal][Pain Inverter][Wandering Eye][Ineptitude][Shrinking Armor][Resurrection Signet][Power Drain][Cry of Pain]

I've been using that a lot recently. Comfort animal is for my jingle bear. <3 But it can be swapped with something like Glyph of Lesser if you wanna spam your skills. Clumsiness is another good skill to put in there.

I really love pain inverter in HM. Especially when I face Ele bosses. I just throw it on them and boom~ They explode.

Other builds I use are:
[Pain Inverter][Empathy][Backfire][Energy Surge][Glyph of Lesser Energy][Resurrection Signet][Ether Nightmare][Cry of Pain]

Can swap E-surge for Visions of Regret, and I sometimes take Arcane Echo instead of Ether Nightmare. Other than that, the build stays that same. ;\ Someone said it before though, it's your build, find something that works for you and lets you have fun while playing. Try considering what else you're bringing and what you're up against. Maybe you could make some awesome Mesmer + Hero team that syncs so well that it'll be the next big thing.

Airlea Alexis · Dec 21, 2008, 09:27 AM // 09:27

I'm using the following build:

http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:Me/E_PvE_MoR_Dom_Mes

It works nicely, but one thing to keep in mind are the runes. I am using 2 majors, but what I read from previous post is that it might not be smart to do that cause of your relatively low HP. Maybe someone can confirm this, and suggest something else for the stats?

upier · Dec 21, 2008, 10:09 AM // 10:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexander Burn Victim

I finished all 3 campaigns + eotn with some horrible build that had no elite, and I didn't have max armor. Some builds are more efficient than others.

In which case you should be running a physical.
I bolded the winning part though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexander Burn Victim

lol You're kidding right?

Pretty much the only degen that I can think of that would be worth it is burning from SF. Because you need the burning to do damage with SF.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airlea Alexis

I'm using the following build:

http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:Me/E_PvE_MoR_Dom_Mes

It works nicely, but one thing to keep in mind are the runes. I am using 2 majors, but what I read from previous post is that it might not be smart to do that cause of your relatively low HP. Maybe someone can confirm this, and suggest something else for the stats?

Even with 2 majors you should still have have around 550 hp.
Now if you want to play better - then there is no use for that big of a HP loss. Considering you aren't using skills with a breakpoint - you could just run minors instead.
BUT since this is PvE - you should do fine with majors. Especially if you end up playing with hench who only have 480HP ...

Daesu · Dec 21, 2008, 11:00 AM // 11:00

This is what I use:

[Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support][Assassin's Promise][Pain Inverter][Shrinking Armor][Cry of Pain][Shatter Delusions][Phantom Pain][Ether Signet]

Conditions and hexes are for better synergy with discordway heroes and I prefer Shrinking Armor for the cheap 5e hex to fuel CoP, then Shatter it after CoP.

kostolomac · Dec 21, 2008, 02:47 PM // 14:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexander Burn Victim

lol You're kidding right?

The only acceptable degen skill for mesmers in pve is Ether Nightmare , and even then you need to grind to a high kurzick/luxon rank. Single target degen sucks in pve. I wish the max degen was raised , it could breathe life into the illusion line.

This is the build I use nowadays: [AP CoP Spam;OQdUAQhOQvSLQxA2gbAmOpixkxNA]
Works well with discord heroes , but what doesn't

Daesu · Dec 21, 2008, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by kostolomac

The only acceptable degen skill for mesmers in pve is Ether Nightmare , and even then you need to grind to a high kurzick/luxon rank. Single target degen sucks in pve. I wish the max degen was raised , it could breathe life into the illusion line.

This is the build I use nowadays: [AP CoP Spam;OQdUAQhOQvSLQxA2gbAmOpixkxNA]
Works well with discord heroes , but what doesn't

I dont like "finish him" on my mesmer bar because of the 50% health limitation which means if you are fighting a boss, you cant use it until it is <50% health. Also sometimes it goes <50%, you use it just when it self heals above 50% and wasted it.

Also, YMLAD has the same damage as FH but it provides knockdown and cripple condition without that limitation. I find that more useful when I need to kite from melee, so I would prefer YMLAD or EVAS.

You are bringing Mind Wrack just to fuel CoP, since you dont have any energy denial skills on your bar. Mind Wrack + CoP + Shatter still has a lower damage than Shrinking Armor + CoP + Shatter, no matter how much you hate degen, 0 damage is worse. I also get an extra condition.

Axel Zinfandel · Dec 21, 2008, 07:04 PM // 19:04

[OMGWTFBBQ;A1RBI964CKtA9BsEYDuLGTiAK6A]

Sub CP for whatever you want if single target degen just to meet CoP pisses you off.

Sub "Finish Him!" for Pain Inverter for known, hard to kill bosses. They will pretty much explode. To the above poster, if an enemy is below 50% health, you can just slap on AP, use Finish Him, and it's pretty much a guarentee kill.

Pretty much go spamhappy, use AI a lot for energy, and you pretty much won't need another build.

kostolomac · Dec 21, 2008, 09:42 PM // 21:42

@daesu: When the mob reaches 30%-40% of his health , the only thing you need to cast is AP and FH!.
I chose mind wrack over shrinking armor because I hated that all my other mesmer skills were from the domination a side and shrinking armor "stood out". Also mind wrack never lasts long because I shatter it , like any other hex , so it doesn't matter whether it's mind wrack or shrinking armor.

@Axel: I'll try it out.